2020 October

Dualing Enneagram Patterns

Simply put, any enneagram approach will provide you with a dominant pattern just find your main point of attention and look forward arrows that tell you your point in security and in stress.

Riso Hudson has free short test usually enough and a paid long form maybe 12 bucks.

I suspect Jim is a “7” which I thought I was up until about 2005, I’m clearly an 8.

So Jim’s 1->7->5 is most likely his dominant pattern but like all of us Jim flies with a wing, either 6 or 8.

No way Jim is a 6 although I would suggest a shadow point of note, most likely Jim has an 8 wing.

2->8<-5 (the pattern looks like that)

With Jim’s power, interdependence and low acceptance you would think that 8 might be the dominant pattern however idealism tends to move that point to 7 and more than likely the 7 pattern is present.

I’ve noticed the 8 wing a lot and I question Jim’s low score on venganza/competitiveness and I think if Jim were to contrast the questions between low and high you would see his behavior as pointing to a reversal although not high.

My sense is because Jim is interdependent and noting where he lives and works and who his friends are that the pejorative language (non PC) for venganza that he articulated scored his values and not his motives.

Our society blocks a lot of motive energy and holders must use convuluted theories of action and use to serve the blockage while pretending they are who they are not.

Ok back to my dual patterns:

If you’re “in” the wing, then the wing’s pattern is brightened and active and for motive energy it appears to be a similar idea because ANY FOCUS of energy would block energy and information which makes a person like a Jim/Mike with a high energy profile (TRUMP) seemingly activated in a number of conflicting patterns.

The high energy means that entropy is high because no first tier system is capable of satisficing the energy and you have entropy flying everywhere because of dissipation, including dissipation in the metasystem which consistently causes the switching between the dualing pattern creating even more entropy.

If the metasystem fails to form or forms incompletely you get THE FLY!

The fly in the ointment to use a cliche is the dead spot in the metasystem.

[I started another thread for DQ-BLUE which I started writing into this thread!]

The dualing patterns from your “point” and your “wing” are most likely connected (Siamese) somewhere and mirror your MBTI functions in some form.


That a brother from a whole other mother but suffice it to say, I think I found Jim’s “literat” because at “1” it’s hard to be clear if things don’t line up as Jim’s S function (inferior) is screaming for literal.

On the other hand I’ve upset Jim when I proved for an F function.

In the wing, 2 makes the case for feeling which for me is where the 8 goes in security but unlike Jim I’m low social contact…and as we tend to be statistically aberrational—it’s good to notice these notices…

This all gets very interesting and theoretical but for the high curious. It’s manna from heaven, so to speak.

You read much of the ANTICHRIST and you’ll wonder a lot more;)





One reply on “Dualing Enneagram Patterns”

2007 though.


Re: me being high vengeance. No.

You’re not reading the tea leaves right because no one has ever hung in with you this way. So your pattern matching has got nothing to pattern match with.


I doubt your thesis on vengeance unfortunately…almost always wish I had more. I think it has tremendous fitness.

Mostly what you are experiencing is learned behavior. “Tit for tat” or “immovable wall” or “don’t F with me” or “ok, I’ll play your game, you’re probably not going to like it though.”

It is the only structure(s) that I have found that can durably hold in relationships where high vengeance is regularly on the table.

Remember I am 15 years into deep work / relationships with high vengeance people. So have my 10s of thousands of hours in the saddle on this one. And I do it mostly because it is a great counterbalance to my low vengeance. I can hybridize it in work settings. It has such fitness on so many levels.

But what this also means is it’s volatile expression is a possibility at ANY moment. I know this in “my bones.”

A person expressing high vengeance (especially triggered) generally wants to win at any price (not even thinking of the collateral damage – “going in the Red zone” as some high vengeance colleagues have described it), or can tip into a need to destroy the other – it is a super fast, hot system of values. Like all the others…not a rational thought process. (again, in the right context, extremely fit – think Michael Jordan)

So I have developed the capacity to “power up” very quickly. Psychologically, it is the healthy (only) place to stand (I found anyway). Otherwise, you are “on your guard” 24/7…that’s where I was early on…being constantly ready, in a defensive stance. That’s not sustainable. Infinitely more sustainable…just be prepared to respond with equal or greater force.

You can call it “arrested” if you want. I’m ok with that…

Guaranteed…there is no way I would have married, nor, equally important, my high vengeance wife married me, had I not found this gear. Or in our case, mike, had I not decided to not let you “throw brush back pitches” without response (TKI-accommodation @ 87%)…I would have done the reasonable thing and just left the list.

It’s also fairly practical – I learned the lesson from a world class negotiator I interned with in my 20s. The very best negotiators match the style across the table from them. A negotiator with a collaborative style as their only go to will get their clock cleaned by a competitive negotiator all day long.

I think I did the accommodation thing for the first 5-7 years or so. Showed great deference, tried to smooth over conflict, etc. I did not compete with you. I did not match this at all. In fact, tried not to trigger the compete response. (TKI- compete at 10%.) But came to a point when I realized that was not a healthy place to be.

If you think I am high vengeance or even average vengeance…think about two high vengeance people in a close relationship – we all know where that leads…

My sense…we are now in a productive rhythm…but that is in large part (for me) because I am willing to “compete” with you when you are competing. I probably lose track and just do it as a matter of course now with you which probably grinds on your end. But at a “meta” level I am accommodating you.

Based on your feedback, you perceive it to be competing or vengeance…which it is…but those are assimilated/adopted/surface values doing their work in me, which I continuously prop up because I instinctively will go back to my “set” value positions.

If I couldn’t do this…this would mean you and I couldn’t be in a productive relationship. I can only speak for myself…that would be a profound loss for me.

In turn, I have noticed the many shifts in you…as you choose other responses…ways of coming to this table. I suspect you are also assimilating “non hardwired” values because they provide greater fitness. (a fair bit of FS-Green…I might note!! 🙂

I’ll write on this…this is also a prerequisite for 2nd Tier valuing – trans valuing.


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